100 thoughts on “Why China’s Investment in Africa Raises Questions, Putin, Trump & More!

  1. Being South African, I do not like the American government at all, they have threatened SA for years over HIV/Aids aid (amongst other things), in return for UN votes (and much more) and when I say threats, I mean actual threats. They have commanded the arrest of African leaders who set foot in SA, leaders who committed war crimes as if the US is free of such leaders. Oh, and the US loves pushing their idea of what democracy is as if the popular vote counts for shit.

    Now with that said, China and Russia's methods are far from flawless. Take the countless nuclear power plants that Russia wants to build all over Africa, SA had to reject these countless times and yeah you cannot deny that a debt trap type of situation exists with China.

    I think at the end of the day we consider the lesser of two evils and I truly believe all African countries are better off without any US interference, we do not want to be the next Iraq, Syria or Iran.

  2. I'm just hoping Africa doesn't end up getting turned into a proxy-war "zone" like the "Middle-East."

    We need better governments the world over – and fast.

  3. A youtuber named Kraut made a great in-depth video about China, and it's not just in Africa that they're making deals that involve harbours and such, it's all along every major trading route by sea. It's a pretty easy conclusion to draw from their actions that their involvement in these regions is centred on regaining control of the trade routes they dominated for thousands of years, but lost to the western in the last 3-400-ish years. I by no means think that China shouldn't be allowed to trade to whomever they want, but just considering the type of influence their trade deals carry with it (such as in Australia with their anti-global warming support), it's a very chilling thought that they are now capable of twisting African nations to their agenda. But, a lot of that is also thanks to a lack of involvement from the US, who hasn't been doing enough to prevent the spreading influence of China, and whose current president hasn't done his country any favours in terms of international reputation. To many people outside of the US, business with China and Russia might seem like the lesser evil.

  4. Clearly USA screwed up. If they had been investing in infrastructure in Africa for the last 60 years, the USA would have had its influence and made its trillions. Instead, it just suppresses countries until someone smarter comes along. I think the USA has had its day… for the better or worse of the world 🙁

  5. We owe a crap ton to China in the US right now. You know what happens when China owns most of the debt in the world? We all gone be collateral on our governments' loans.

  6. If China wants to take our place in the realm of global domination, I’m all in favor. Then they can be the hate recipient.

  7. What is China doing that the USA isn't doing?The problem is that the USA hates competition which is like hating Capitalism,strange,very strange.

  8. On one hand this is bad, on the other I don't think the US would be much better. It's good for everyone if Africa grows and developes and China can only hold on for so long before it eventually shatters. Considering that the world is fucked either way I don't have the energy to give a shit. I'll just try to live happily while I can.

  9. This is a very well rounded piece. This is a very complex issue and it was very well broken down. It presented the facts in a highly productive way showing the narratives around the issues along with the argument against the narratives. I personally think that China has both debt traps and some genuine development loans for the area. They are as everything in a grey area and each deal needs to be checked but not written off as a trap.

  10. Bold of him to assume that their children's children will be around to deal with the debt and won't have died from the upcoming climate catastrophes :')

  11. That reporter is on China's dick. It is absurd to say that China is taking collateral on high risk loans without the intent to seize and control. That's the primary purpose, to say otherwise is contrived.

  12. I think both have their advantages and disadvantages concerning trade deals and aid. Aid has no collateral. Although in Kenya the port has not been taken over, that certainly wasn't the case in Sri Lanka, which is an example of a nation further along in Chinese debt. The trade deal has less prior conditions needed. Although there are certain leaders in Africa with clear human rights abuses, there are a number of others that are making strides and it is not the right approach to boss around another leader.

  13. Its wierd how we view China's government both as being hyper-capable internationally and as fundementally unsound way to handle economics. I recognize that they are a nightmare for human and civil rights

  14. OK, so I have serious doubts that the US actually is concerned with democratization as a first priority. However, I'm shocked that you compare the goals of democratization and political influence as if they are similarly respectable motivations. If you don't have democratization, you have rights abuses surrounding freedom of speech and personal autonomy. If we take human rights seriously, then we ought to always be pressuring democratization.

    Again, I don't think the US is actually interested in democratization. Our track record is pretty poor on respecting foreign democracies. But if you're oppressing your populace, every nation and person on Earth is in a position to insist that you stop. Democratization and China's political interests are not equally respectable enterprises.

  15. As an African I really hate when Americans and Europeans talk about China Africa‘s relationship. I do not deny that China likely has some very shady deals with African governments. But those deals will never ever compare to the IMF conditionalities Place an African governments in the 80s in the US intervention policies That nearly destroyed the continents up until the early 2000’s. How dare you guys talk about China and Africa in this era without accounting for how the west’s actions is what pushed African nations towards China FDI investments. Mind your business you guys have never cared about the continent past its resources so fuck the pretense

  16. That bit about how the "west" envisions Africa was pretty spot on. So many Americans, when they think of Africans, even to this day tend to imagine bush people in loin cloths. Even at a more "updated" perspective, they still imagine massive poverty.

  17. ways of controlling africa

    China
    give a payday loan to african governments in hopes of repo-ing their country
    Russia
    Export all the arms they can to fund whatever insurgencies may pop up later, and be the friendly neighborhood gun salesmen
    US
    Establish a Western government culture in hopes that they can follow the way they came to be successful and become like them

  18. western countries tend to approach their foreign policies in an idealistic mindset ie; govt should be run by the ppl fr the ppl, democracy etc. This is great if you're dealing with a somewhat true democratic country but they wont get through if the countries r already led by a powerful political regime. Obviously the ppl at the top will be reluctant to ease their grip in return fr a few financial aids or trade deals. They need a new strategy of approaching developing countries. Ofc these countries will like china or russia more which are basically dictatorships and oligarchs; politically more aligned with them and seen as no threat to their internal power. I'd say play ball fr now and let the ppl of the countries mature more on their own.

  19. China gives kenya a 0% interest loan
    Usa: this is not fair
    Also usa: gives a usa citizen a 100% interest loan
    Usa: this is right, nothing wrong here.

  20. Eric Olander, he sounds like a chill for the CCP. It's quite obvious that China is trying to exploit and screw over Africa as best they can. I'm sure Russia, the U.S. and other countries as well have done their fair share of sneaky deals with African countries. But you can't really compare it to the corrupt communist police state that is China. Which also happens to be world leading in environmental destruction. Because the Chinese government don't give a crap about the planet, other countries, or even their own population who arguably suffers the most of their relentless pollution.

    I'd much rather listen to this guy then that Eric Olander: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlAb-Gfeoyk

  21. Neither country is better. No country gives a fuck about Africa, it's just a place to take shit from. Whether political or resources.

  22. This is sad, I wish Africa could united their countries and become independently strong. None of these places have Africa's best interest. In 30 yrs, I bet there will be a billion chinese people in Africa taking all the good jobs and land. It will be too late then.

  23. African countries will not put up with China acting colonial and China understands this. There is a good indication that these loans are good faith and the resulting infrastructure improvements will result in the increased capital to pay the debt. Something that is good for both the African countries involved and China. China would have significant trouble with the international community if it ever tried to act in an overhanded fashion. The fear of this is good for countries competing with China yet, the idea that China would act in this way can not be substantiated.

  24. I am a Canadian, however, my roots are in Malawi, and when I visited in 2011, at one point we came across 2 brand new buildings in the sea of poverty (Malawi is or at the time was one of the poorest countries in the world). I was told they were brand new parliament buildings and a government hotel that had been built with $4 billion in Chinese "aid money". This was the same time that one of their major cities had been experiencing constant rolling blackouts due to the inadequate power infrastructure leaving neighborhoods with power for 2 hrs a day.
    It is really sad to see what feels like the second raping of the continent, but with all the corruption it is not likely to change any time soon

  25. I like to regard myself as a Zambian American and firstly I'd like to say "thanks" for trying to cover such a complex topic. Secondly, I have no idea what's worse Chinese/Russian investment vs Western investment. For overall development, Chinese/Russian investment is 110% seen as a better for Sub-Saharan Africa but the long term risks are cause for great worry. When it comes to US meddling… I mean "investment", their ideals are favorable but their control… I mean "guidelines" causes just as much worry. I realize this statement is a bit naive, but if governments just acted fairly towards one another we wouldn't have half the problems we have with international dealings today.

  26. I think that the Chinese Debt Trap narrative has some merit. You can't deny that having a significant portion of the World owe you in some way is incredibly beneficial for trying to establish some sort of power over them, even if it's subtle.

    However we in the US also have to remember that we also owe significant debt to China.

    "The U.S. debt to China is $1.10 trillion as of October 2019. 1 That's 26.7% of the $4.12 trillion in Treasury bills, notes, and bonds held by foreign countries. The rest of the $23 trillion national debt is owned by either the American people or by the U.S. government itself." (https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-debt-to-china-how-much-does-it-own-3306355)

    So about 1/23rd of our total debt, (which while a "small" number, is still significant to our economy) is directly tied to China.

    Trying to complain that other countries are "falling into the Chinese Debt Trap" while diving in ourselves…is quite the hypocrisy sandwich.

    I am however more concerned with the concept of the export of weapons to African nations, but its more on the stance that I dislike the concept of exporting weapons of war from any nation, not just Russia. But I don't know if the age where diplomacy is truly the best "weapon" to end a conflict has arrived yet, though I do so wish it had.

  27. The US wants 'democratization' and to 'reduce corruption'… why regurgitate American talking points? Isn't Rogue Rocket a news outlet? You should start by pointing out that just like Russia and China, the US wants to safeguard it's commercial and militaristic interests, to the extent that the 'big brother' role is merely a facade. Examples can include what happened with the obviously unjust (and complete failures) that were the wars in Iraq and Vietnam, and scandals like the Iran-Contra deal, or more recently, the surprisingly funny attempt to instigate a revolution in Cuba through their USAID program. And even more recently when the US claimed that Brazil's last election to be a fraud, and then turn around and insist that the candidate THEY back should be president: Jair Bolsonaro that is, rather than hold new and fair elections, simply because Trump's administration wants a conservative to take power and give them a foothold in the region. Of course the situation in Brazil was complicated, and the other candidate was on the verge of becoming an autocrat, but that doesn't change the fact that the US's moral high ground and democratic aspirations are just flimsy propaganda. In the US and globally, the idea of the US protecting civil liberties and fledgling democracies is a laughable concept. The fact that you didn't point that out shows that either you didn't do your homework, or you don't care enough about the subject matter to give it the more complete perspective that it deserves.

  28. China's approach is helping AND hurting Africa. American's approach is well intended AND ill informed. It's the citizens of those African nations that need to decide their own future. I'm in favor of the tools that meet those goals.

  29. I don't think that any one country should focus on changing the politics right off the bat, but I think if you take the time to change the infrastructure of African countries and improve the livelihood of everyone there (i.e. investing in the country), then you could see more success. It all depends on whether a country is doing it for the right reasons or not to me. With what we've seen of China's record, I am skeptical of their movives.

  30. China definitely is using loans to gain influence and control in Africa, but I don't think that they actually want to be payed back. They want access to natural resources for their growing industries, especially cobalt.

    They are also helping various nations in Africa with development with these loans, which is something they are in need of so at least for now this seems like a reciprocal relationship.

    But the interviewee claiming that the takeover of the port in Kenya wasn't the actual goal is just plain ridiculous.

  31. kinda related… so china is also in South America, I'm from Bolivia and last time I visited my family I saw a good amount of Chinese people in suits and I asked my family about why there was so many Chinese now and they said that for the past few years they started coming opening factories or buying land

  32. It's a great question but we need more context: What was the value of the US arms deals in Africa, The Russian deals is described as large at $15 billion but the US annual military budget is $700 billion. Looking at China what value is the US investment in Africa both structured loans and charitable donation.

  33. Communists are trying hard to win over the world. Europe needs to wake up. The US cannot fight all the battle alone.

  34. China isn't doing anything here that the US and other western countries haven't done before. The International Monetary Fund and World Bank were there to enforce payment and American and European companies now own the infrastructure of these developing countries, taken as payment for their loans.

  35. I was a peace corps volunteer in Guinea, and this was a really hot topic anywhere I went. Chinese development was building roads and businesses, and super interested in bauxite, while the US was doing health and wildlife development…it really didn't seem like either country was getting to the root of things.

  36. China's debt traps are obvious, and something that the West has already been doing for many decades. Go read "Confessions of an Economic Hitman".

  37. 40 years ago China was as poor as Africa, in 1980 the GDP per capita of China was under 200$, and now it's over 10000$. I think Africa values China's experience much more.

  38. China’s way actually brings money and work to nations while U.S. just sees them as poor people who need a white savior

  39. This is ridiculous. The “debt trap narrative” is clearly just a thinly vailed excuse by China so they can continue to take over as much of the world as possible.

  40. Im from South Africa and If you really want to have a nice deep dive look into the Failed South Africa, Russia nuclear deal that saw India business men crippling the power generation of South Africa and at the same time bribing government members or replacing them to sign deals we knew we could never repay.

  41. While I firmly believe that China has far-down-the-road plans that are in China's best interest first and foremost – the fact is that this benefits both countries and I can't fault Africa for accepting. Africa needs infrastructure, jobs, and industries – which is what China is delivering. China needs to continue to grow both their populace and their economy – which is what Africa is delivering (Chinese citizens work on the infrastructure projects – money goes back to China and their families). The bummer thing is that the only reason the US is caring about Africa is because their enemies are caring about Africa. With that being said, Russia doesn't belong – at all. They're only arming the country, and that's the last thing anyone needs. I'm not saying that Africa can't be armed, I'm saying that a general disarmament of EVERY country is in the world's best interest.

  42. I'm so glad you've brought light to this issue… China has bought the continent… And it is horrible! Worst thing is where the political figures are taking HUGE bribes and not caring about the country!

  43. In 2016, South African citizens were freaking out because our president wanted to take a huge loan from Russia to build power stations. Our finance minister was fired for blocking the loan. The uncertainty caused by the president's drastic actions significantly weakened our economy.

  44. So, what achievement did western countries do in Africa country? All I know is French build a high speed train at somewhere in Africa.

  45. Also you need to slow down your speech… Or at least a bit of a pause when there's some kind of punctuation. Other than that, great report!

  46. Did China use missiles to force other countries to do business with it ? China has forgiven debts to other countries again and again. How about America and the pre ww2 Europe ? They have bullied other countries with missiles.

  47. This debt-trap strategy is already playing out in malicious ways in the EU. Kraut has a video diving into China called, "Trump's biggest failure" that is extremely enlightening and deeply disturbing.

  48. Actually true, when I was still in college learning about the economy, the International Monetary Fund was essentially giving out loans that were near impossible to pay back. What they would do to profit from this was to alleviate the loan payment by having the other countries loosen up their environmental laws, ban unions, and the like. This made it much easier for companies to profit from such low margins. Apparently China and one other country were the only two that have escaped the vicious cycle.

  49. It’s not just America though. Everyone is still treating Africa as a place with lots of resources as a commodity rather than actually dealing on equal footing with another continent and the country’s that reside in it. All of the big players. China, Russia, and the United States don’t actually care what happens to Africa and if they will even be able to prosper and no longer be home to some of the poorest nations on the planet. They just want to sure up alliance any way they possibly can so that one day people will looks back on Africa trade deals as a big factor as to why China or Russia could ever overtake the US in the future and become the world’s new number 1 power house. Because coming with the number 1 spot is the opportunity to not listen to any other country because you don’t need their help to reach the top anymore and you can just do whatever you want without a single care of what the other world powerhouse or the UN could possibly do to you because their not a lot they could do even if they wanted to. It’s exactly how America has operated for almost the past 70 years since WW2 ended. the US emerged as the most dominant country on the planet and has kept a vice like grip on this position ever since because it is nice to be number 1 and never ever Have to take orders from anyone. So now more recently with the technology age we are able to see in real time what China and Russia are both trying to do with Africa as their pawn/play thing to generate power to surpass the US in almost every spending and consumption statistic their is to signal a changing of the guard. Of course we as the US are always going to want to keep it our number 1 spot as a priority to remain as the the largest country’s in terms of spending and military and services and goods. And the various attempts ever single year by Russia and China to become the next superpower nation that everyone else has to answer to like how the world right now has to answer to whatever the United States investigative or needs simply because we are the number 1. It’s best described in a joke where the UN threatens to sanction the US for anything they done that seems out of line and the US responding by “well who gonna enforce those sanction???”, “last time I checked you don’t have a any military might United Nations? So I suggest you sit down and shut up. That’s what I would do if I had no military might I’d shut the hell up and let whoever has military might actually do the big boy work” or the joke of the UN telling the US to stop trying to be the world’s police. To witch the US responds to the UN, “well what are you gonna do about it? Call the cops??? You idiots WE ARE THE COPS!”

  50. honestly, this is really concerning.. China is 100% doing this for the sake of wanting something back, and so is Russia. There is no such thing as “be the nice guy” and “I don’t want absolutely anything back other than these small things” in the world of world leaders. Living in Egypt now scares me much more than I used to be.

  51. As if the US is giving money to Africa solely to help democracy prosper around the world. Stop with the bullshit idea that the USA is the world’s police. Every dollar that the USA gives out is meant to give them some sort of gain down the road.

  52. I think you brushed off China's dept trap strategy to easily, look at what they done I Asia. They'll pull the same stuff in Africa.

  53. China's method is the much better method and route Africa should take. Africa can get freedom and democracy all day- but democracy doesn't make roads or build farms.
    America likes to think how we did it was best; get democracy and build infrastructure along side it. And frankly, that probably is best, but that's not realistic. Yes yes we did have some wars and a bigger civil war but on the whole, Americans came together under one flag with relative ease. Again, very surface level America's path has been a lot easier than most countries when it comes to unity and building up democracy and industry together. But we were lucky.

    Africa's, problems can't be summed up cleanly due to previous colonial issues. The way the borders are drawn are not how the African people actually wanted them. Most conflicts happen over ethnic groups that absolutely hate each other being push together and told to get along. So yeah, of course you can't all agree and have a democracy and have a nice clean voting system when you fundamentally disagree with your neighbors and hate them.
    That's like asking red blooded Americans and hard core communists to come agree on how to build a city.

    And what's the point in democracy if everything's shit? Sounds weird to Americans because freedom over all is so culturally ingrained in us, but to a lot of Africans, they'd just rather eat and not live in a shack over getting to vote every few months. Several dictatorships in Africa that put the people before more wars have massive approval ratings because hey, they're actually getting something done for once.

    What Africa needs is infrastructure. They need roads, water, electricity, plumbing, medical care, and above all, security. The African people need that desperately, and they will take it from whoever gives it. Only once people can lead decent lives there can they be worried about democracy and freedoms.
    I'm America, freedom is a right. In most the world, it's a luxury. We gotta stop thinking we can raise every country back up like Japan or Korea so easily- our success rate isn't as high as we like to think.

  54. The US version is better for Africa as they are not trying to own their property or ports, they simply want to aid them into democracy by letting the people vote. These African leaders want to stay in power 20+ years and make money for themselves and unfortunately there is corruption in some of these African countries.

  55. The US method of war a d destruction and the Chinese method of debt and economic burden plus the crippling austerity from things like IMF(US). Which is worse? I say US war mongering is worse but both are bad.

  56. Also US using aid is worse than debt because with debt, you at least know first hand what you're getting yourself into.

  57. Even if its a "debt trap" it sure sounds way better than getting bombed by drones and occupied for your oil. At least this way infrastructure is getting built instead of having it bombed.

  58. China has better trade relations with Africa, though it requires greater transparency for the taxpayer to understand how the trade deals are being crafted.

  59. I’m going jump on theory!! This virus that’s going around China I think it’s the government creating lethal viruses! To much of coincidence or not! I’m waiting on video that this virus was purposely done.

  60. To be honest, let's just start with dropping the single word "Africa". That is akin to talking about to talking about "America" for the nations of North America and South America.

    In speaking of the collective whole it would be better to speak of "the African states", since there are north of 50 actual nations or territories over five distinct regions (as defined by the UN). Egypt is Africa, as is Sierra Leone, and even Madagascar (even though detached).

    That means so so much complexity in terms of dealing with so many different sovereign states. "African states" is a term that helps remind people that Africa is not a country…which is really what many westerners vaguely think.

  61. You can take China's INVESTMENTS in Business or you can take 500 pound precision Guided bomb from a US Reaper drone to your citizens and infrastructure.
    Which would it be???

  62. I don't know if i trust china not to lean into those parts of their deal. I think theyd pressure those countries in other ways too.

    However, on paper, i prefer china's methods. On paper, they are leaving the countries alone and simply initiating in trade and loans to help the countries. Where as the US and other powers just want to fully control them and tell them how to run their countries. We've been doing that for over 75 years now all over the world and it's time to stop. We've never been successful and it always ends horribly.

  63. I was in Uganda this past May. The influence of China is absolutely appalling. I tried to talk with the locals about it as much as possible. For the most part, they view it as a good thing. China’s giving them a highway, which is creating jobs through construction, which is helping the economy. But a few people pointed out how fearful they are of China’s influence. Before, their national parks were untouchable by law. Now, China is drilling in them and exporting their goods for them (hence, the highway). The question is becoming, if China demands it, will their government say no? They know their national parks are rich in oil and ore, and Ugandans are definitely fearful of what that means

  64. well that's what they usually do, drown countries with debts and destroy it inside out. I hope that virus plaguing them atm will change their minds.

  65. If I sub to RR chances are I pay attn. I did know about China investments. The belt and road initiative too. Why would you assume otherwise. You audience is smarter than you give them credit for.

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